Editing issues ( mega-topic ) ( partially unfixed )
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@Nils I will try to solve the remaining open issues by the next build.
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@Nils Error (3) is problematic (it is not really an error):
- when cloning an object the shape effects of the original are used.
- but unlike other attributes, shape effects can be added on top of the cloned effects.
- so when the cloned object it selected, the panels show what effects are added on top of the others.
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This post is deleted!
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@Nils I will find a way to better indicate that shape effects were "inherited" from the source object.
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@vectoradmin Btw, just out of curiosity, would you mind telling me what programming language(s) you used to build VS? It's a little off-topic, but I'm curious.
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@Nils It is C++, with some language level extensions (transpiling to C++), and of course a set of frameworks written in it.
Some specifics of this (internal) language:
- adds dynamic typing to the strong typing mechanism of C++.
- lots of runtime introspection and dynamic type handling features, based on that.
- property synthesis (no need for getter/setter), with a single line of declaration.
- container properties (again, a single line for a lot of code).
- method bindings (a.k.a connect in Qt, but much more powerful)
- property bindings, and cross-bindings (keeping two properties of different objects linked).
- hidden / dynamic "private implementation pattern" provided at language level (i.e. object memory layout does not change if properties are added / removed).
- both fixed and dynamic properties (fixed is as fast as C++, dynamic needs a lookup).
- dynamically set any property using their names (can be synthesized from String).
- dynamically call methods marked as dynamic using their method name and argument types (this allows trivial bridging to scripting languages).
- dynamic multi-methods (using dynamic method lookup).
- containers using the dynamic type system.
- some language level support for plugin extensions (mostly implemented by the core framework).
- and some other more obscure language level stuff.
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@Nils Just an FYI - if you click the three vertical dots on the right side of any post, you can go in and edit your post and add more information to it instead of making a new post for each small update
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@Boldline Hey, thanks, but I already knew this. As you may have noticed I'm already editing in new sub-topics into the mega-topic.
The reason I'm adding replies at the end of each new sub-topic is because I'm unsure if an edit causes a proper notification for @vectoradmin, so the edit doesn't go unnoticed. Do you know if this is the case?
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@Nils I don't think it sends a new alert if you edit an existing post.
I think it's great you are aggregating topics into one thread and updating the status as they get fixed. In some ways it feels confusing because there's redundancy of topics but if it's helping @vectoradmin, then that's good.
Adding posts is like being part of a group text - you get alerted for every one. That can be good for bigger things and a little annoying for smaller less important ones. So @vectoradmin is seeing the alerts, but then it also alerting everyone in the forum as well each time.
For updating @vectoradmin on the little things, what about opening one reply box and adding all the small updates you are going to be doing for a span of time and sending it once? - that way there aren't a ton of alerts for minor updates
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In some ways it feels confusing because there's redundancy of topics but if it's helping @vectoradmin, then that's good.
The only redundancy I can see is topics from other forum members not being integrated into these mega-topics, because I added accumulation notices to all of my past topics.
My intent with these mega-topics was to make it easier
- for me and others to track the state of bug fixes and feature requests
- for @vectoradmin to quickly get an oversight ( note the state notices in the titles of all the mega-topics ) of the above
- to organize and categorize bugs and feature requests
One thing that has lurked in the back of my mind for a while, though, is the possibility of enabling other members to integrate their topics as sub-topics of these mega-topics aswell. I feel like this would be another huge improvement in communication between the community and @vectoradmin.
So @vectoradmin, what do you think of the above proposal?
So @vectoradmin is seeing the alerts, but then it also alerting everyone in the forum as well each time.
You made me reconsider the replies for updates. It clutters the mega-topics. I'll remove them and rely on @vectoradmin to frequently look at these mega-topics. I mean the necessity of paying attention to them is already communicated in the titles with the parantheses anyways.
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@vectoradmin said in Editing issues ( mega-topic ) ( partially unfixed ):
@Nils Error (3) is problematic (it is not really an error):
- when cloning an object the shape effects of the original are used.
- but unlike other attributes, shape effects can be added on top of the cloned effects.
- so when the cloned object it selected, the panels show what effects are added on top of the others.
Can be removed to reduce confusion, as I've moved the sub-topic.
This comment will be deleted afterwards aswell.
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@vectoradmin said in Editing issues ( mega-topic ) ( partially unfixed ):
@Nils I will find a way to better indicate that shape effects were "inherited" from the source object.
Can be deleted to reduce confusion, as I've moved the sub-topic.
This comment will be deleted afterwards aswell.
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@Nils said in Editing issues ( mega-topic ) ( partially unfixed ):
The only redundancy I can see is topics from other forum members not being integrated into these mega-topics, because I added accumulation notices to all of my past topics.
Before you started a new system with mega-topics, there was already an existing system where users can add a topic and it could be elaborated upon by all users. This has worked well for as long as I've been in the forum. For me personally, the mega-topics intermingled with regular forum threads are too confusing and can easily lack the context of the original thread. I'm not any more in charge of how the forum works than anyone else. I'm just sharing my opinion.
I can see also see value to what you are doing - there are times topics get brought up and parts get fixed immediately but other parts get put on a list for later. It's easy to forget if those updates are still happening at some point. Sometimes a post can be missed. It can be nice to skim through a condensed version of things and see what is fixed and still waiting. I would assume it's more for the users to keep up with and maybe for @vectoradmin to reference; I'd think he has his own way of organizing things off the forum.
This type of mega-topic checklist feels like it belongs in a new forum category - so if someone wanted to quickly go through a brass tacks overview and then dial in to details as they felt so inclined, they could. Instead of wading through a ton of old conversational smaller posts, the mega-topics would be easier to find this way
This would allow the regular threads of conversation to go on in the main area and new ideas and fixes could be added as mega-topics or added to an existing mega-topic
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This has worked well for as long as I've been in the forum.
We're probably going to have to agree to disagree on this one, but the very reason for me to start this new "system" was that I though the old "system" lacked organization and didn't work very well.
No way to reliably and efficiently keep track of what's already been reported / requested and keep track of the state of this report, besides randomly searching the forum, which doesn't even guarantee finding an existing one.
Just like you said yourself:
It's easy to forget if those updates are still happening at some point. Sometimes a post can be missed.
No way to be sure @vectoradmin, as he's a human just like anyone else, didn't get to notice some of these due to stress / lack of time or whatever.
the mega-topics intermingled with regular forum threads are too confusing
As I said earlier, this could be alleviated by enabling others to integrate into mega-topics, so that you have everything neatly in one place.
can easily lack the context of the original thread
This I don't get. The context is that it's a mega-topic with specific contexts provided by its sub-topics. The mega-topic doesn't have a concrete context.
I realize I'm being a little ocd about this ( forgive me for abusing this term like many others do
), but I genuinely just want to increase the likelihood of VS improving more quickly and more reliably.
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@Nils said in Editing issues ( mega-topic ) ( partially unfixed ):
but the very reason for me to start this new "system" was that I though the old "system" lacked organization and didn't work very well.
ok that may or may not be - but it's not any of our place to just come in and change up the way things are done without running it by the group to be sure it's what they prefer, much less the one who oversees the entire thing. (If you ran your idea by the developer to change the forum prior to doing so, I apologize). Please have consideration for others who are here using the system. Not everyone breaks down the topics the way you do - not everyone is a developer.
@Nils said in Editing issues ( mega-topic ) ( partially unfixed ):
the very reason for me to start this new "system" was that I though the old "system" lacked organization and didn't work very well.
This is your opinion and you're entitled to it. VS has grown by leaps and bounds over the last couple years, so I would not agree it did not work well.
@Nils said in Editing issues ( mega-topic ) ( partially unfixed ):
No way to reliably and efficiently keep track of what's already been reported / requested and keep track of the state of this report, besides randomly searching the forum, which doesn't even guarantee finding an existing one.
Having an outline of a main topic in a specific area of the forum is a good idea -I'm not arguing with that. The fact that you saw that and wanted to do something about it are good things - my issue is that consideration of others is important. Not everyone is going to want mega-topics as the primary way of using the forum.
A big drawback to mega-topics is that they lack the back and forth conversation and evolutional process of ideas. in fact, it's these conversational threads that provide the inspiration and bug reveals that could ultimately become a mega-topic.
The main aspect of the forum therefore is to promote conversation and the virtual togetherness of putting our minds together to find solutions.For me, mega-topics are too overwhelming. I can see the value in aggregating the main topics in some way as we go along - linking relevant threads to a main topic in another section as they get discussed.
@Nils said in Editing issues ( mega-topic ) ( partially unfixed ):
I genuinely just want to increase the likelihood of VS improving more quickly and more reliably.
I don't doubt you have good motives for what you are doing - we all want to see VS continue to grow and develop and become the answer for so many people. I'm not sure what you mean by more quickly and reliably. The developer is pumping out updates at a high pace and has an overall plan in place for future updates.
@Nils said in Editing issues ( mega-topic ) ( partially unfixed ):
You made me reconsider the replies for updates. It clutters the mega-topics. I'll remove them and rely on @vectoradmin to frequently look at these mega-topics. I mean the necessity of paying attention to them is already communicated in the titles with the parantheses anyways
All I was asking was for consolidation of minor points into one post rather than multiple posts one after another - so we're all getting fewer notifications.
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@Nils Since you tested and reported so many issues (which is great!), I understand you felt the need to organize them into 'mega-topics'.
I'm not against them and I don't get notified by email if I didn't post a reply in any thread. (Oh… now I'll get notified about this
)On the other hand, I hope the developer team uses a bug tracker system, like Jira, Asana, etc.
Jira for instance lets you log bug reports, tag them by anything you want so they are easier to search ('Editing issues', for instance), also create suggestions/request entries. And last time I used it, it was free for 3-member teams.
Also, help desk software (ZenDesk, HelpScout, etc) can be linked to Jira so that when a bug is fixed or a request implemented, you just select the last fixed issues and you can send an email to each user who reported the bug or suggested something to let him know it's now fixed or implemented.
…….. .
So… assuming the developer has such a system in place (I hope so, for his sanity), the mega-topics are mostly good for us the other forum members, to track things along with you, and maybe interject some idea or… oppose some suggestion.
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@Nils I echo what @b77 said about the great ways you've contributed already to improving VS. I'm an artist and so the things I see to improve and the bugs I notice are related to what I do and think about as an artist. It sounds like you are a developer based on your posts and your background and way of thinking has added many things I would not have noticed were issues. We all contribute in our own way and together the feedback to @vectoradmin is well-rounded.
We're not always going to agree. For that matter I don't think anyone expects everyone else to agree with them 100% either lol. The fact that we are all here committing our time and energy to make VS better means we are all passionate.
You're absolutely right there could be a better way of tracking topics and organizing them. The inclusion of the code to checkmark them done is terrific.
One of the reasons I was thinking it was better to make those mega-topics a separate area was so there can be more control of what goes into them. What makes the mega-topics you did great was that it's all organized and links are made to smaller conversations and posts. That's going to turn into a mess with people posting all over the place.
I am not against the idea at all of more organized content and more efficiency for @vectoradmin to find the issues and for us to follow up on topics as we go along
What about a new area of the forum for the brass tacks approach? Topics could be pre-set ahead of time. As conversations occur in the main area, they get selectively added to the right overall topics - keeping it neat and clean
Just ideas and possibilities -
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@Boldline said in Editing issues ( mega-topic ) ( partially unfixed ):
brass tacks
Thank you for your appreciation!
Yes, people view the world through different lenses, which brings diversity but also conflicts, unfortunately. That's normal, you're right.
What about a new area of the forum for the brass tacks approach?
I think something along those lines makes sense. However, I also would like to drive back a bit my enthusiasm about everyone and everything being assimilated into a mega-topic. I tend to get overzealous with these "organizational ideas". We are not borg ( idk if you're a trekkie haha ) after all..
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@Nils I appreciate your humility as well. Yeah we're all kind of stuck here together whether we individually choose to "live long and prosper" or "use the force"
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@Boldline said in Editing issues ( mega-topic ) ( partially unfixed ):
The inclusion of the code to checkmark them done is terrific
FYI, if you didn't know that, you can include checkmarks in any text area that parses markdown ( like for topics in this forum software ) with brackets and a space or x between them, like so:
"[ ]" Fixed
"[x]" Fixed
For some reason the parser here requires you to label the checkmarks, with a space before the label.
