Brush "live" randomization / variation

Subpath

Harry

@b77 said in Brush "live" randomization / variation:

@Harry Interesting. Can you explain a bit what the 'Tremor' and 'Wiggle' options do exactly?

According to Inkscape's tutorial Tremor produces anything from slight unevenness to blotches and splotches. Wiggle is the resistance of the paper to the movement of the pen.

So yes, as @Subpath mentioned this is not the best example here.

@VectorStyler said in Brush "live" randomization / variation:

@Harry This is already doable with some work, by creating a new brush shape.

But it requires more steps, and a new brush content.

I added this to the backlog.

In the attached file adjust the random "Seed" parameter of the shape effect on the top-right object (Effects->Edit Shape Effects)

0_1670309365492_randombrush1.vstyler

Yes @VectorStyler , but it's not what I meant. i played with the effects already and I think they're great, but they're still some kind of "post production". What I meant is to have brush randomization applied live.

My idea is similar to @Subpath and @b77 wave forms concept:

@Subpath said in Brush "live" randomization / variation:

So maybe we could go one step further and create a way for a Stroke to randomly switch
between different (self-defined) brushes.

My concept is as follows:

Since we are painters or draftsmen, our tools are stylus and mouse. Let's take 2 different brushes from our presets and styles - Brush A for softest stylus pressure (or minimum mouse velocity) and brush B for hardest stylus pressure (or maximum mouse velocity):

0_1670319697324_4e950a49-91b7-4f5b-819e-14ff37dc2167-image.png

Everything in between those 2 brushes is a result of "modulator" which changes brush appearance live. "Modulator" should be stylus pressure or mouse velocity dependent.

Modulator can be for example:

blend tool
shape effects
interpolation
randomization
variation
@VectorStyler 's imagination, etc.

General purpose should be that effects are aplied live and every stroke is different, even Brush A and Brush B should have little "initial" blending, randomization , roughness etc. to make them different.

Is it possible? Any other ideas?

VectorStyler

@Harry said in Brush "live" randomization / variation:

Everything in between those 2 brushes is a result of "modulator" which changes brush appearance live

This does not exist in the current version of VS.

Technically, it could be possible to implement, but some things must be clarified:

From what I see, the "modulation" would vary along the path, based on pressure or some other input.
This cannot be done with current shape effects.
Also: we have to keep in mind that these brushes are vectors, so would this mean that in case A (soft pressure), the vectors would break into some form of random smaller shapes?

VectorStyler

@Harry I think this "modulation" along the brush path of some distortion parameter is an interesting idea.
I added this to the backlog. Some details need to be worked out (ideas are welcome), but I think this could be implemented before version 2 (if not version 1.2).

Harry

@VectorStyler said in Brush "live" randomization / variation:

Also: we have to keep in mind that these brushes are vectors, so would this mean that in case A (soft pressure), the vectors would break into some form of random smaller shapes?

Yes, that's the point - to simulate natural brush stroke:

soft pressure - low opacity, smaller "particles"
hard pressure - stroke is more opaque, more solid, more distorted etc.:

Examples from Rebelle 5 (one of the best natural stoke simulator in pixel world):

Harry

@VectorStyler said in Brush "live" randomization / variation:

@Harry I think this "modulation" along the brush path of some distortion parameter is an interesting idea.
I added this to the backlog. Some details need to be worked out (ideas are welcome), but I think this could be implemented before version 2 (if not version 1.2).

Glad to read that!

VectorStyler

@Harry said in Brush "live" randomization / variation:

Examples from Rebelle 5 (one of the best natural stoke simulator in pixel world):

This will be hard to do with vectors only.

Harry

@VectorStyler said in Brush "live" randomization / variation:

@Harry said in Brush "live" randomization / variation:

Examples from Rebelle 5 (one of the best natural stoke simulator in pixel world):

This will be hard to do with vectors only.

I know, but results may be surprisingly good!

Krita have some more options for modifiers/modulators i.e. stylus rotation and tilting.
They call it sensors. Here is some more info:

https://docs.krita.org/en/reference_manual/brushes/brush_settings/tablet_sensors.html

Maybe for future development?

b77

@VectorStyler said in Brush "live" randomization / variation:

This will be hard to do with vectors only.

I don't think Harry meant that VS should strive to imitate natural media brushes
accurately like Rebelle does — it's just the random, organic part of the natural
brushes that are to be imitated in vectors.

As I suggested, picking random brush contours from a "contour table" (similar to
wavetables in synths) is one way to achieve this. It's basically stringing them
together (with the first and last connecting nodes free to move vertically) and
bending them along the brush spine, then maybe overlapping three brushes
with different opacities would get you respectably close to the organic quality
of bitmap brushes.

b77

@Subpath I downloaded Alchemy but it's so old that it doesn't work on my Mac.

b77

Another way would be to have just one brush contour but don't stretch it — instead repeat it but randomize the nodes.
Maybe this approach would be faster for "live" drawing.

Subpath

@b77 said in Brush "live" randomization / variation:

@Subpath I downloaded Alchemy but it's so old that it doesn't work on my Mac.

that, sad to hear, because its a nice little Tool
as i wrote works here on Win 10 without any Problem
despite that it is from 2010

i will create a video to show some Tools of it
but this will take yet some time

Subpath

@b77

you could try "Webchemy" its a online drawing tool
in the style of Alchemy, but have much fewer tools.
But a Pull Brush ( you cant define your own Brushes )
The Results can be saved as .SVG an PNG.

Here the Link
https://webchemy.org/

0_1670335421195_Webchemy 1.png

0_1670335430738_Webchemy 2.png

0_1670335472111_Webchemy 3.png

b77

@Subpath Ouch… Webchemy is rough…

Subpath

@b77 said in Brush "live" randomization / variation:

@Subpath Ouch… Webchemy is rough…

thats true

Harry

I found temporary workaround also in the Stroke Width panel's menu - there is "Randomize profile" option. Still it's "post production", not "live" and not exactly what I meant:

VectorStyler

@Harry If there are some good inspirations on how such a brush should look like, please upload here or send them to me by email.

Harry

Problem is, that I don't know.

Let's say I'd like to design some abstract pattern. I would take "Live random effect brush tool", and I would experiment and look for some inspiration from great and interesting shapes this kind of brush could produce.

Subpath

@b77, @Harry, @VectorStyler

Hi

As a source for inspiration, for modulate Strokes, the painting program
Black Ink came to mind.

"Black Ink" uses a kind of controller nodes to modulate brushes
to set and control random strokes and has a node system for layers.

Here are some videos

Video about the Brush Controllers:
Black Ink Brush Controllers

Video about Black Inks Layer Nodes:
Black Ink Layer Nodes

Scattering a Brush may also be interesting
her a Video about it
Scattering a Brush with Controllers