Where does 'leading' belong?
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I am still working on an inventory on the subject of 'leading'. The difficulty is that there is a difference in approach and division when you look at different software packages.
From a traditionally pre-digital point of view to Pagemaker, CorelDraw, QuarkXPress and MS Word, leading is a paragraph attribute. If we look at Vectorstyler's biggest competitors, I have this summary:
Adobe treats leading as a character attribute, which means that you can apply more than one leading value within the same paragraph. The largest leading value in a line of type determines the leading for that line. (However, you can select a preferences option so that leading applies to the entire paragraph, instead of to text within a paragraph. This setting does not affect the leading in existing frames.)
Affinity treats leading as a paragraph attribute and a 'Leading Override' in the Character panel (does not affect the paragraph but only the lines it is applied to.)
To take my work a step further, I would like to know from the developer whether the choice to make leading a character attribute is a conscious choice and what his reasoning is for it.
NB
Interesting thread that illustrates this:
https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/120740-request-replace-leading-override-with-leading/)
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Interesting thread that illustrates this:
https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/120740-request-replace-leading-override-with-leading/)Wow, that is a long thread. Is it about Affinity Designer or Affinity Publisher?
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@b77 Both
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@Ayo I agree with the original post, it is a bit difficult to decide what is the best way to have leading.
There is also the case of user expectation, sometimes it is needed as a character attribute, in other cases as a paragraph.When the VS leading attribute was designed, this disparity between applications was considered. That is why there is leading both as a character and as a paragraph attribute.
Also, the paragraph level leading was designed to be relative only (can be changed of course), because the actual leading info comes from the font height by default, which is a character attribute, and there can be multiple character styles inside a single paragraph, so it was better to refer to these in terms of percentage.
But it would be possible to add, a fixed or absolute leading to paragraph level also (besides the default relative) one. In this case the leading (for the whole paragraph) would either be fixed, set to a number of points, regardless of the character size or other attributes. Or (as an other option) would be a fixed pt amount added to whatever leading the characters induce.
This would resolute in a similar selection for paragraph as for the character leading mode: relative (percentage), absolute (fixed pt), or gap (added pt).
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@VectorStyler
It seems like your problem solving approach is to add things. I don't think that's the right way to go. I can't figure it out now, let alone duplicate more things.
I always have trouble making choices myself.
As you yourself stated earlier: "One thing to keep in mind is that VS is a drawing app and typography might be used in a non-traditional way.", isn't the Adobe approach the most flexible? Specify it at the smallest/lowest level, the characters. Vectorstyler is not intended for newspaper design.
Although theoretically incorrect, it is also better for user convenience to place leading under 'character'. After all, you also say 10/12 or 10/14. You don't want to open different panels for that.
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@VectorStyler
I have read your previous post carefully. I am trying to go along with your design thoughts
and try to visualize/schematize this for myself. A few questions.For my understanding:
- in your design character leading overrides the paragraph leading?
- Is an added incremental +/- variable needed for the Auto leading as well as for any optional Fixed and
Gap Leading? What does it have now? See image below.
If you need local adjustments, you do that at character level, right?
It is a bit difficult to try things out in Vectorstyler now because leading and text in general are
still a bit sensitive and buggy. But I will work around that.
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@Ayo said in Where does 'leading' belong?:
In your design character leading overrides the paragraph leading?
paragraph leading augments (adjusts) the character leading.
Is an added incremental +/- variable needed for the Auto leading as well as for any optional Fixed and Gap Leading?
For the Auto leading, a percentage will do (100% for default). And +/- for the adjustment (gap leading).
If you need local adjustments, you do that at character level, right?
Yes.
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@VectorStyler said in Where does 'leading' belong?:
And +/- for the adjustment (gap leading).
And a List predefined sizes for Fixed but no added variable on top of that.
If you need local adjustments, you do that at character level, right?
Yes.then leading set in the character panel overrides the paragraph leading, isn't it?
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@Ayo said in Where does 'leading' belong?:
then leading set in the character panel overrides the paragraph leading, isn't it?
Not really. At least currently, the paragraph level leading (percentage) adjusts all the character level leading up or down.
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@VectorStyler
That applies to percentage, the relative case. But what if pragraph level in Exact mode were specified for example (char.12/)12 or Gap mode zero or 'cold set'?
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@Ayo said in Where does 'leading' belong?:
But what if pragraph level in Exact mode were specified for example (char.12/)12 or Gap mode zero or 'cold set'?
Have to figure it out (not implemented yet). My thinking is that it would set the whole paragraph to a fixed leading (ex. 12 pt), and character leading could override this value (leading could also be missing from the character attributes, if overrides are cleared).
