Inspiration - context sensitive object toolbars
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I'm all for new ideas for vector editing, but I'm not sure I'm understanding how adding a group/ungroup at the bottom of a selection box helps. The majority of users are not going to be mouse-only/non keyboard shortcut users. Shortcuts like group and ungroup are some of the earliest ones new users would learn because grouping/ungrouping is done all the time. To me, this just adds clutter to the workflow
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It is not a 1:1 feature request. It is inspiration. I am hinting that it is possible to add and offer relevant and easy to understand options directly in the object user interface like this. Group/ungroup is a helping hand to novices but I would personally love a few key object options right there instead of having to use keyboard or pointing at toolbars or panels placed all over the screen.
Or making it obvious that shape options are available - you can click the object once created if you know that is possible. Most wont. Or a similar option could be displayed when a shape is active. It is a simple tool to help the majority of especially new users.
Just inspiration. Planting a seed of thought in @vectoradmin 's mind for whatever plans or ideas he has.
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@Ingolf I for one don't dislike the basic idea to have two or three (small and monochrome) buttons automatically pop up depending on what is selected (multiple objects, a group, text, etc), but these need to be configurable (or toggled off) in the Preferences — some people need a popup with the size or coordinates besides Group/Ungroup, while most others need only Group/Ungroup and maybe Transparency and Noise effect level.
(Maybe this is where the idea with the clickable number fields would come handy?
Anybody? No? Ooh-kay…)
Anyway…
Another approach to this would be to have the buttons change dynamically to the last edited parameter – if you just adjusted Transparency, have a small slider for it, if you just changed some Blur effect, have a small slider for it's Amount. Or Noise amount:
Of course, when in node editing mode, maybe have some 'Cusp', 'Join' or 'Break at Node' buttons instead.
Also: I'm curious what happens in DrawSerif when the objects are zoomed out so they and their bounding box is small.
Aren't these DS buttons too big by including that description? (Maybe that's why Boldline doesn't like them).
Having good, self-explanatory icons for Group/Ungroup, without the label would be better, I think.
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I'm not saying I opposed it entirely, more that I didn't see the point of adding basic functions to the bounding box. I'm always open to ideas that push the program forward. With @Ingolf 's clarification that this was more inspirational and less literal, I'm more excited about it. The concept of adding control of a deeper feature to the bounding box could be interesting. Using it for something super simple like group and ungroup felt to me like it was dumbing down VS. It would have to be sleek and unobtrusive.
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@Boldline Having a few buttons "attached" to the bounding box can speed things up, especially if those basic functions are used often.
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@b77 said in Inspiration - context sensitive object toolbars:
Of course, when in node editing mode, maybe have some 'Cusp', 'Join' or 'Break at Node' buttons instead.
Not that this necessarily needs to be be added to the bounding box, but I would love to find a fast way to incorporate the node options on the fly. Maybe that's just keyboard shortcuts, maybe it can be more....
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Interesting ideas. Technically these are doable, but these need to be done in way that it is customizable.
An earlier feature request (it is in the backlog): https://www.vectorstyler.com/forum/topic/375/personalized-popup-menu-with-shortcuts-and-macros
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....The majority of users are not going to be mouse-only/non keyboard shortcut users ....
Can not totally agree. I'm also more of a mouse-oriented person.
If you work professionally with a program every day,
then it's completely understandable to me that you prefer
to use keyboard shortcuts. When I worked in digital printing,
this was also completely natural for me.But now as a private person, where I use a lot of different programs
programs, I only look at shortcuts when there is no other way.
Or all other ways are too complicate.And I think there are some other users who prefer this way.
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The way the sliders are presented there somewhat resembles the so-called "U Point" technology from DxO (originally from the Nik collection):
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@Subpath Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I still stand by my comment that most users are not going to be mouse-only/non-keyboard users. Certainly hobbyists are not likely to have a screen tablet and stylus and be whizzing around using all the keyboard shortcuts. I admit there are also a few professionals I know who prefer the control of the mouse over a stylus. I'm not anti-mouse (I use a mouse in tandem with my stylus based on what task I am doing, though mostly for controlling things on a second monitor)
I agree that there's a certain amount of consideration that needs to be given to hobbyists and to onboarding new users of VS or any design program. That said, there's also a point where a program can begin to feel cluttered and overly redundant in its attempts to cater more to hobbyists and newbies at the expense of professional users. That's what I worry about with adding basic functions like group and ungroup to the bounding box. VS is a professional vector editing program, not an entry level program like Amadine. We want everyone to use VS, but those who choose to use VS should do so with that professional expectation.
What's great about VS is that it takes the best from many other vector app and adds a lot more intuitiveness and ingenuity to it. Those who have used other vector programs should not feel too lost in VS as they get acclimated. VS offers amazing customization of keyboard shortcuts, giving users of all abilities a solution to simplify their use of the program. It would behoove any level of user to learn them or to modify the defaults to key combinations that can be easily learned.
If you choose to be a mouse/non keyboard shortcut user, that is certainly your prerogative and VS should still function well for that type of user. My question is, at what point does it get too cluttered?
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Have no Problem with your point and respect it.
Just wanted to bring in the view of a user who
is rather mouse oriented.... My question is, at what point does it get too cluttered? ...
Your right with that and i think this will be hard to solve
with the many Features that VS offers.
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@Subpath I understand your point as well. when you have a lot of programs you are dabbling in, it's hard to get keyboard short comfortable and memorize a ton of stuff with any. Many tools are found in multiple ways across VS, but do we do that with all? i don't think that's possible.
It's hard to know for sure where to limit things and where not. VS will also never be everything we all want it to be personally. I'm glad it's not all based solely on my ideas alone, because many are formed from working in other programs and @vectoradmin has found improved or better ways to handle things than I was anticipating. Then there are other things I know having used VS and other programs that the other solutions are better and I try to advocate for those to be installed in VS. I know we've all contributed to that "better program" that VS has become!@Subpath said in Inspiration - context sensitive object toolbars:
... My question is, at what point does it get too cluttered? ... Your right with that and i think this will be hard to solve with the many Features that VS offers.
I think we have to pick and choose what gets that limited space. Some things seem common across many apps - like grouping, pasting, copying, etc... those would be lower priority for extra space in VS as everyone knows them. Another option is customized space. I know @vectoradmin mentioned opening up some space for adding custom desired tools and features in the VS UI.
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Just to point it out, this could easily be a customization option. Rather than being just group/ungroup, consider an option to pick from the existing toolbar commands and add smaller versions of them to the bounding box, on a selected side of it, perhaps specifying which ones should appear for a given type of object, or when there are multiple objects selected, etc. It would basically turn an edge of the bounding box into another customizable toolbar.
